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Communicator Academy Podcast # 197

Thinking Like A Boss

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Kathi – Well, hey friends. Welcome to Communicator Academy, where our heart is to equip and encourage women to become the communicators God has created them to be. Today, I am very excited, because I have been trying to get this interview on the books, it feels, for a very long time. She is here. She is with us and it is Kate Crocco the author of Thinking Like a Boss: Uncover and Overcome the Lies Holding You Back. Can I just say? There’s not a more timely topic than this. I just feel like so many women I know are held back, not by the same things men are. I’m going to tell you a story, then I want this to be all about you. So, one day, I was reading Lean In. First of all, welcome, Kate. She really is here. It’s not a solo interview. I was reading Lean In, and I was reading about a study done at Hewlett-Packard, where women only applied for a job if they were 100% qualified. Men would apply for the job if they were 60% qualified. Well, my husband happens to work for Hewlett-Packard Enterprises and I said, “Roger, who are these guys that are going around and applying for jobs they’re only 60% qualified for?” and he said, “Me.” And I said, “What?!” He goes, “I figured, the worst thing they could tell me was ‘no’. I’ve applied for jobs that I’m 40% qualified for.” I’m like, “Well, that’s ridiculous.” He goes, “But Kathi, I get the job.”

Kate – Yeah.

Kathi – I thought, “Oh, we’ve got a mindset difference.” So, Kate, tell me why it is so different, between men and women, in the business place? Why do we think so differently about ourselves?

Kate – Well, I love that story, first of all. I think that, as women, when we’re growing up, we have these beliefs that, we should want to be a mom someday, and do these nice, sort of, cushy jobs. Don’t reach too far. I have to little girls right now, they’re 18 months and almost 3 years old.

Kathi – Wow. Your house is surprisingly quiet. For being in self-isolation with two babies.

Kate – Hopefully it stays that way for the interview. We’re really just trying to teach them, “You really can be whatever you want to be. It’s not just men who are firefighters, or who become doctors. Women can be what they want to be, too.” I think we live in a different day and age now, where that’s becoming more of a normal, but I’m not entirely sure why men are a lot more confident in situations like you were just expressing. I’m not sure exactly what it is.

Kathi – It’s just a different thing. I think, in society, they’re raised that way, and we’re raised to think, “Oh, let’s be polite.” It’s a whole thing. So, let me ask you this, because, not only are you a mindset coach, but you’re also a therapist. So, how have those experiences shown you the difficulties many women face in running their own business?

Kate – So, I started as a therapist and went through a lot of my own limiting beliefs. “I’m too young to start a business. People are not going to take me seriously. I sound like a child.”

Kathi – You are very young looking, which is a beautiful thing, but when you’re starting a business, you’re right. It’s a different thing.

Kate – Yes. “They’re not going to take me seriously. They’re going to ask how many years of experience I have.” I believed a lot of those lies myself and started to work through them on my own. I realized, “Wow. The more that I work through these, the more successful my therapy business is; the more clients I’m able to welcome in.” Through a series of events and helping other people work through their own mindsets, I started this other business of helping people, directly in their businesses, with their mindset. I like to say, all of the women I work with, most of them have some type of degree or certification or years of experience. They are overqualified for the work they are doing. So many of them struggle with feeling that they are not enough. Or they don’t have enough knowledge yet. Or some people feel like an imposter. I know we were chatting a little bit about that before. It’s a real thing. What I tend to find is, the women who are the most qualified, actually feel the least qualified.

Kathi – So, one of the things you tell these women is to start before they feel ready. Why would you give that advice? Is it because they are already overqualified, they just haven’t caught up to their own truth? What is it? It’s like what we talked about with Hewlett-Packard Enterprises. “I’ll only be ready when I’m 100% qualified.” No, you’re probably ready at 40% qualified ‘cause you’re smart and you can probably figure the rest out. So, why do you tell them to start before they feel ready? Isn’t that just too scary to do, for most people?

Kate – Oh, it’s terrifying. I don’t think we’re ever going to feel 100% ready. I don’t know anyone. No one has ever said to me, “I’m 100% ready to get this started.” Whatever that might be. Starting a business, or pivoting in your business, or becoming a mother, or that next life transition if you’re getting married. No one says, “I think I’m 100% ready.” There’s always a little bit of doubt. The thing is, the longer we wait, the more the doubt starts to snowball. I look at is as a snowball. We tell ourselves these lies, we start to talk ourselves out of doing the thing. So, I think when you have that idea, or that dream, get started right away. Do it while you’re scared, because it will get easier. I always say, “The only way to build your confidence is through consistency.” It’s through doing these scary little bits of action over and over again. In time, these things get easier. I think that’s important that every day, you do something that’s out of your comfort zone.

Kathi – Okay, can you give me some examples of little things you’ve done that have been outside of your comfort zone?

Kate – Maybe having a really direct conversation with someone.

Kathi – Okay, that’s not outside the comfort zone. That’s out of the stratosphere. That’s so hard, right?

Kate – I feel like those uncomfortable conversations, they are a possibility every day. If you’re in business, or you’re just living life and have people around you, there’s something uncomfortable you have to say. Maybe it’s an uncomfortable conversation. Or for someone it could be asking something that is very direct, like, “Can I get a refund for that?” Or, back in the days when we were allowed outside, going into a store and saying, “Hey, can I have five singles for a $5 bill.” Asking for change.

Kathi – I feel like I have a polite disadvantage. I’m overly polite. If you brought me the wrong food, I might not send it back, unless I was deathly allergic to it. I wonder if other women feel like this. I feel like I’m taking up too much space in other people’s lives. Okay, so how do you get past that feeling? I think we were probably taught by somebody in our lives. For me, it wasn’t my parents, but maybe somebody in our lives, that we were too much, too big, too loud, too whatever. So, we don’t want to inconvenience people. We want to be seen as the helper. I’m talking, honestly, about myself here, so how do I get past that? I think most people in the world don’t mind if you ask for change. Then there’s the person who does and you’re like, “Ah! I’ve blown up their world.”

Kate – Yeah, so first of all, a lot of the things we worry about never happen. Or, the things we think people are going to think about us are not actually true. So, us going and asking for that change, we may think, “Oh, I’m inconveniencing this person.” And they have no idea. They don’t even think twice about it. I think of my own life. People have asked me certain questions like, “Hey, I really don’t want to inconvenience you or bother you.” And I would say, “I would never even think that. Never would second guess that.” I think what helps us is, no matter what, we are going to be too big, or too small, or too little, or too much for people. That’s okay. A lot of this book is acceptance. We’re not going to be everyone’s cup of tea. Not everyone likes tea.

Kathi – I love that. Both of those are true.

Kate – When you can accept that and realize, “I need to just be unapologetic. I need to just show up as myself, because if I try to be someone else, there’s going to be someone who doesn’t like that person I’m trying to be.

Kathi – It’s so true. I can’t remember who did the quote. “I need to be fully myself, not a cheap copy of somebody else.” When you photocopy something enough, it loses its crispness, its impact. I don’t want to be a cheap copy of somebody else’s life. Okay, so this is an interesting question. You say that women often use their financial situation as a barrier. Explain that. I would love to understand more about that.

Kate – So, often we come up with these excuses that we tell ourselves. “I can’t start a business, because I don’t have enough money.” Or “I don’t have this.” But I think that a lot of these lies, in the book, what is really underneath them is just fear. It’s not that I’m afraid to invest in this business, I’m afraid that if I invest money and start this business, and invest into whatever this is, I’m not going to get a return. Maybe I really feel like I’m not ready to do it. Or I’m not committed enough. Or I’m not smart enough. So, it’s funny because the lie is actually typically not the actual lie that you’re telling yourself, it’s something else.

Kathi – So, it’s a lie covering a lie.

Kate – Yeah. You know, a lot of women I work with, they will say, when we’re talking about working together, “I really want to say yes to this, but I don’t know if my spouse is going to be onboard. I need to ask them permission.”

Kathi – That’s not a partnership.

Kate – No. I remember feeling that same way, too. The first thing I wanted to invest into my business was a $49/month website, and thinking “I have to ask my husband’s permission if I’m allowed to do this.” What I realized is, that’s not a partnership. A partnership is saying, “Hey, I’m really confident that this thing I’m going to invest in, in my business is going to eventually get a return. So, what do you think about it? I’m going to go and make this investment. Are you onboard? How do you feel?” Having more of a conversation about it, rather than feeling like you need to get that permission.

Kathi – Don’t you feel like that gives our spouse the ability to invest in us and believe in us in a way they wouldn’t if we were asking permission? If we’re asking permission, it’s a hobby, but when we’re saying “You’re my partner in this. I’m your partner in what you do. I make sure things happen so that you’re able to do your life’s work, and you’re doing the same with me.” What it does, in that partnership, it gives them the ability to be proud of you, and also to say, “We’re in this together and we’re succeeding together.” If something fails, you’re not alone.

Kate – I love that.

Kathi – Okay, so what is the lie that you believed that was holding you back? I’m sure there were several, but give me an example.

Kate – I think the biggest one was motherhood in business. Growing up, my whole dream in life? First of all, I wanted to be an elementary school teacher. Wanted to get married at 20/21 years old and wanted to have a lot of kids. I just wanted to be a mom. Maybe be a stay-at-home mom. That was my dream for a long time. Then, life changed. I went into a different career and started my business and really fell in love with running a business. It got to a point where my ideas in life, my dreams in life became a little bit clouded. This was probably about four years ago. Saying to myself, “I don’t know if I want to have a family anymore.” And that’s okay. Having a family is not for everyone. But, I started to eventually think, “Well, that was my dream in the past, and I’m wondering why I’m now saying that I don’t want this dream anymore.” It was because I was just fearful. I was fearful that I wouldn’t be able to keep up with my business. I was fearful that I wouldn’t be able to have both.

Kathi – It was “either/or thinking”.

Kate – Exactly.

Kathi – Instead of “and thinking”.

Kate – Exactly.

Kathi – Yeah. So many of the women I know who are starting businesses and doing the things. They’re so smart. They’re the smartest people I know. They can figure it out. They can figure out how to get the help, how to do the thing, how to partner with their spouse. I absolutely love that. Here’s the thing, guys. First of all, I’m going to make sure you have all the ways to follow Kate in everything that she’s doing. We’ll make sure they’re in the show notes. Something else that’s in the show notes, we’re going to do two things. One, I want to understand what is the lie that has help you back in your business, or in your creating. What is that? We’re going to be doing a book give away of this book. I think that all of us who are entrepreneurs. Thinking Like A Boss: Uncover and Overcome the Lies Holding You Back From Success. Who couldn’t use that? So, we’re doing a book giveaway. Also, Kate has a download. Free Thinking Like A Boss Book Club in a Box download. Explain what that means, Kate.

Kate – Yeah, so I have a Book Club in a Box. When you get your book, there is twelve weeks of worksheets with different questions. There’s a leader’s guide. There are affirmation cards for each chapter. There are some Spotify playlists. There’s a ton of stuff in this Book Club in a Box.

Kathi – I love that idea. Book Club in a Box. So you have everything you need. You can do this in person, online, I absolutely love it. Kate, thank you for sharing your time to encourage all my fellow entrepreneurs out there. I so appreciate you.

Kate – Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun.

Kathi – And friend, thank you for joining us. You’ve been listening to Communicator Academy. I’m Kathi Lipp. You’ve been given the best message in the world. Now, go live it.

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*see show notes in podcast post above for any mentioned items