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Writing at The Red House Podcast # 228

 

How to Talk about the Hard Stuff with Humor

 

 

<<intro music>>

 

Kathi – Well, hey friends. Welcome to the Writing at The Red House podcast, where we gather at the table to break bread, and tell tales with some of our favorite writers and speakers, who love to share the story of God’s extravagant love.  We are back here, for the final episode. That makes me a little sad.

 

Jason – Ah, man.

 

Kathi – I know, right? Normally, I’m like, “Boom! We got four of these done in two hours.” No, we’re going on to hour number three, friends. I knew it would be like this with Jason, because we have a lot of bunny trails we need to take, to get to where we want to go. Now, you and I, a couple of weeks ago, spent a little time. This is what happens with really smart people. They can talk about a thousand different things and I need to figure out, “Okay, what are the four things we’re talking about?” So, I wanted to get you on here and talk. It was so interesting. First of all, you are not just a comedian. You’re not just a preacher. You’re also a woodworker.

 

Jason – So, you found out.

 

Kathi – Right?! Is that a Covid discovery? Or has this been something you’ve been doing for a while?

 

Jason – My dad used to do it, just a little bit of work. Then, having six kids, we wanted a long table where we could have friends over. So, we have some families who have six-seven-eight. So, we were like, “Man, we need a long table.” I just didn’t want to spend all that money for one, so Terri and I built one.

 

Kathi – Okay, so your wife did it with you?

 

Jason – You know how y’all ladies do? If something doesn’t look right, y’all have the gift of telling us that it’s not right.

 

Kathi – That’s how Roger and I built a table. I love that. We did the extra long table during Covid, because I want people to be able to sit around at the Red House and just talk all night long.

 

Jason – Terri has this idea about what she wants her house to look like. She would come in and say, “Naw, you’re making it crooked.” I’m like, “It’s not crooked. I got it.” Then she’d leave, and I’d be like, “Yeah, she was right.”

 

Kathi – She was right. This was crooked.

 

Jason – So, she would come in and coach and advise. She did a lot of the sanding and staining.

 

Kathi – Oh. She’s a better wife than I am. I just said, “This is what I want.” And Roger made it so.

 

Jason – Once I built it, I’m like, “Okay, I’m done. What’s next?”

 

Kathi – Yes!

 

Jason – All the detail. I’ll sand a little bit, but the staining? She’s attention to detail.

 

Kathi – We all have our spiritual gifts. That’s absolutely right. So, you were sitting outside. It was on your front lawn, I found out, because, you were waving to everybody who was coming by. So, finally, 45 minutes into it, I’m like, “Are you like the mayor of your street?” You are waving to absolutely everybody who comes through. You gave me a very specific reason, why you were out there, on the front lawn, waving to everybody. Can you talk about that?

Jason – Yeah, it was shocking to me, when people started waving at me. Just ‘cause my neighborhood is very quiet, suburban neighborhood.

 

Kathi – You’re in Texas, right?

 

Jason – I’m in Texas. Northeast of Dallas.  Right outside of Plain Ol’ Texas. Really nice community. When we moved here, I felt like I didn’t belong in the community. Let me just say that. So, I was trying to get to know my neighbors, but it was tough. Upper middleclass neighborhood, where people come in and go to work and some are retired. So, I’m just like, “I guess I won’t get to know my neighbors.” I love neighbors. So, one day, I was working on a video, doing some vlogs on diligence and laziness. “I need a fire ant mound.” Texas has some ants.

 

Kathi – Yes, you do.

 

Jason – So, but I couldn’t find any in my yard. I said, “You know what? I’ll go. I see one that’s on the public sidewalk on my neighbor’s grass. I’ll film that fire ant mound.” We’ve been in the neighborhood a year plus, now. So, I go to the house, and I’m like, “You know what? I’m the only black dude on this street. Let me not go ahead and film. Let me just go ahead and knock and ask for permission.” I can, technically, legally, but that’s probably not the best thing to do. So, I knocked on the door. Nothing. Knocked again. Nothing. Then I went to another house, two doors down. Same thing. Knock. Nothing. Nothing. Came on home. Then, I’m like, “Man, I need to find an ant mound somewhere in my yard.” Next thing you know, the police come up. The police say, “Hey, sir. Can I talk to you for a minute?” I’m like, “Yes, sir. What’s happening?” “What are you doing out here? We got a call about a suspicious man knocking on door, and you fit the description to a T. What are you doing?” I’m like, “Man, I’m in my front yard.” “Well, can you prove it?” So now, all this stuff is going on in my mind. Like, I’m insulted that you are asking me in my front yard, do I live here. I’m insulted you asking me, can I prove it. I’m also now frustrated and mad because of that. But with all this going on in the news, typically, when there’s a frustrated black man, with the police, it hasn’t been ending well.

 

Kathi – It does not end well. An understatement, yes.

 

Jason – Right, so I’m thinking, “Okay. I can respond the way I want to, the way I feel like it, or I can try to calm down and no risk anything.” But it’s like, I’M IN MY FRONT YARD. Why do I even have to process this?

 

Kathi – This should not be on your plate.

 

Jason – So, I’m like, “Sir, my ID is in the house. I’ll go in and get it.” They’re like, “No, don’t go in the house. Give me your name and your date of birth. I’ll call it in.” That felt a certain way. I’m in my front yard. You’ve got to call into the police station to verify who I am. That’s humiliating, now. So, I’m humiliated. All this stuff, but I can’t respond a certain way, ‘cause my family’s in the house, and if something goes down like I’ve been seeing on TV, it would happen in front of my kids. My kids would see this. So, then I’m like, “Here.” I gave them my stuff. Now, I put my hands in my pocket, ‘cause it’s cold. They’re like, “Sir, take your hands out your pockets.” He’s like, “What are you doing?” I said, “Man, I’m working on a message. I’m working on a sermon.” I pulled the preacher card.

 

Kathi – That’s the one time you want to be called ‘preacher’.

 

Jason – But here’s what I was thinking. I said, “Man, since you’re making me mad, and I’m frustrated and humiliated, I’m going to give you this message. I’m about to preach a sermon to you.” I was like, “Man, you ever thought about why is it that so many Christians don’t do what God has called them to do?” He was like, “?”. I was like, “No. Why is it? Why is it that if the Holy Spirit is in us, we live beneath what God’s called us to be and do?” He was like, “Man, my brother’s a pastor, man.” He got on the subject. The next thing you know, a second police officer pulled up.

 

Kathi – What?

 

Jason – Yeah. What made it worse, not just like the second police officer pulled up. The police officer had a radio right here. As the second police officer gets out the car, he yells to her, “Did they call it in, yet?”

 

Kathi – Oh, Jason.

 

Jason – So, now, I’m ignorant. You’ve got a radio on your shoulder, man. Why you going to insult my intelligence like that? So, as the second police officer came up and was aggressive. “What are you doing? What are you doing out here?” So then, I was like, “You about to get a message, too. I’m working on a message. You ever thought about why Christians don’t do what God’s called them to do? All of us have a purpose that God’s called us to, and we don’t serve it. Why is that?” She’s looking like, “?” Then they say, “Mr. Earls, you’re free to go.” I was like, “Wait, man. Can you go tell my neighbor who she called the police on? You don’t have to be afraid of me. I want to get to know y’all. I tell jokes in front of white people all the time. You don’t gotta call the police. You don’t have to call the police.” Then I was like, “Okay.” All the emotions. You name the emotion. It was there. I took a day to process. I told my wife, “I think I need to talk about this in public.” She’s like, “Why would you do that?” We don’t air our stuff out in public. But I felt like I needed to display how I dealt with it. So, what I did. I got my comedy DVD. I got two of them. I went to Walmart, and got some nice, beautiful bows to go with my brand colors. I got two of my branded thank you notes, and I wrote two notes the same. “Hey, neighbor. In an attempt to work on a ministry project – I wanted to film a fire ant mound – I knocked on your to do so, but after the police were dispatched, and I had to prove my residence on this street, it became very evident that my neighbors and I needed to get familiar with each other. So, on behalf of my family, please accept this gift of me doing the third thing I enjoy most. PS. If I startled you, sorry about that.” Then, I had my three youngest kids deliver them down to their doorstep. Now, I’ve been living on my street for a year and a half, at this point. Nobody’s ever come over. Seven minutes, Kathi, after giving those notes, and a DVD, there was a knock on the door. The standup comedy DVD is recorded in front of, like, five thousand people. You know, I was just kind of showing them what I do. She knocked on the door. I answered, “Hey!” She’s like, “Sorry. It wasn’t me.” She’s like, “I called my husband and asked him if he called the police on somebody, and he was like, “No. Go down there and talk to them right now.”” So, she had her pajamas on. I invited her in. “Come on in. Come on.” She came in and we’re talking. She’s like, “Let me tell you about our street. This is how long we’ve been living here.” Two minutes later, another knock. I’m like, “Woah. We’re getting everybody today.” It’s this mid-70/80 year old white woman. She said, “Sorry! I didn’t call the police ‘cause you were black.” She’s like, “I thought you were Hispanic or Asian man.”

 

Kathi – Okay?

Jason – She’s like, “The worst thing in the world I’d want someone to think was that I was racist. I got black grandchildren. Next time, they come here, I’m going to send them down here to play with y’all.” I’m like, “You didn’t trust me enough to open the door, but now you’re going to send your grandkids down here to play with us, unsupervised?” I just sat there. She’s like, “I hope it didn’t cause any harm.”  I was like, “It hurt.” I just sat there. I wasn’t mad, but I was like, “I need for you to understand that it hurt.” She’s like, “I’m just so sorry.” I said, “Bring it in. Come here.” And I gave her a hug. Then I said, “Hey, that’s why you need to get to know your neighbors. I’m always outside.” Outside in the front yard is my think spot. We the only black family on the street. We got six kids and a black golden doodle. Y’all see us. I play fetch with him in the front street. It’s not like you don’t see us. Then she said, “I was watching Criminal Minds.”

 

Kathi – I’m dying.

 

Jason – They apologized ten times over. They started bringing us gifts. I’m like, “Y’all don’t owe us anything.” So, we went from nobody speaking to us, to police called to us, to now, people pass by the house and wave, now.

 

Kathi – Okay. I sprung this on you, and I get that.

 

Jason – Speak freely. Ask freely. Go ahead.

 

Kathi – So, here’s my question, because I know you’re a reconciler, but also you’re an agent of change. How does taking what happened to you and comedy get you to the place of making a change? You made a change in those two families’ lives. You made a change in your kids’ lives when you did that. By the way, you get all the gold stars. I’m sitting here feeling humiliated and insulted for you, and I’m thousands of miles removed from this, but my heart is like, “But it’s Jason.” I understand there are a million Jasons out there. Is there an opportunity for you to take this to your white audience? Would you say most of your audience is white?

 

Jason – I would say, primarily. 75-80% Maybe even 90. Maybe even 100. I’m just playin’. I would say 80-85%.

 

Kathi – I was going to say, that’s probably the breakdown of, probably, 75% of the audience, I was sitting in, while watching you, was white. That’s a high percentage for the Bay area, let’s be clear. So, how do you take something like that, something that is so core to you, and affect change in any small way, with your comedy?

 

Jason – Yeah. Man, this is as real as it gets.

 

Kathi – I need to know this. This is what every speaker, no, this is what every thinking speaker, this is what every comedian who says, “My craft is for Christ.” This is the question we have to be asking ourselves. We don’t just get to play church anymore. When God calls us to change, we have to use the gifts and the tools he’s given us to effect that change. Right now, as we’re recording this in the 2020s, there’s a lot that needs to change. So, I want to know, with a story like that, because that story breaks my heart, but I know that I’m not just supposed to cry over it and say, “Poor Jason.” You don’t want that. You want things to change because of it, so where do we go with it?

 

Jason – One thing this story does, is, it blows people away, ‘cause you’ve hurt me. Now, some of y’all have listened to this for four episodes, now. You’re like, “Wait a minute. This guy?”

 

Kathi – “Jason?”

 

Jason – “They called the police on this guy?” but that’s the problem. We don’t get to know each other. We make all these assumptions based off where we’ve been and where we are. So, one, helping the audience get to know you, and get to know your heart, way before you start dealing with the difficult stuff. So, if they know you, they hear your heart, once you start touching the tough stuff, it’s a little bit easier to receive and to hear. Now, they’ve got to know you, they’ve developed this affection towards you. If, indeed, they really want to change. Now there have been audiences. I’ve lost some gigs because I’ve talked about the race thing, but a lot of times I bring the funny first. Then I develop some stuff. I talk about my phone. “I got the iPhone. I got the black one. Support my community. Power to the people.” Then I say, “I was excited when I got the black iPhone. I asked Siri what time was my appointment? Siri informed me that February was Black History Month.” It’s like, “Man, I knew I should have got the white one, but the black one runs faster. I’ll keep it.” You know?

 

Kathi – Oh, gosh. Isn’t it true that when you laugh together, you trust more? You do.

 

Jason – Right. So, here’s the thing. That joke is very uncomfortable for some people. I’m like, “I’m a black dude, telling this joke.”

 

Kathi – I’m uncomfortable laughing, and I’m right here, even though I know you want me to laugh.

 

Jason – Here’s the problem. It’s mostly uncomfortable because you’re not used to having these race conversations.

 

Kathi – It’s so true. It is 100% true.

 

Jason – So, I use the jokes. That joke is an introduction to the race section of Jason Earls’ comedy set.

 

Kathi – Nice.

 

Jason – It’s like, “Hey. I’m about to take you to this road.” But here’s what comedy is: Comedy or laughter, when you’re speaking, allows you to take your audience by the hand and walk them gently down this road that you desire to take them on. Laughter allows them to put their hand inside of yours and say, “Let’s take that journey.”

 

Kathi – Okay. Comedy. You get a ‘go past go’ card that other people can’t earn. There’s something chemical about laughing together that bonds people.

 

Jason – Now think about people trying to handle race conversations, telling jokes that were not funny.

 

Kathi – Right. No.

 

Jason – Right. That’s NAACP sections.

 

Kathi – Yes. It’s so uncomfortable.

 

Jason – Lynchings. Mob. Whatever you want to call it. Everybody. That wasn’t even appropriate. “Man, you made it awkward for everybody.”

 

Kathi – You say that uncomfortable and inappropriate are two different things.

 

Jason – Absolutely. As soon as I say, “I’ve got the black iPhone.”

 

Kathi – And “It runs faster”?

 

Jason – Oh my gosh, “What is he about to say?” But then you don’t see all that other stuff. Then when I talk about Siri, then you hear the black dude say, “He preferred the white iPhone.”? That’s funny. Then, when I take a stereotype, “The black one runs faster. That’s the one I want.” All that stuff. All the presuppositions that are going on in that person’s head, but yet the discomfort of, “Oh, man. Okay, we think like that. That’s a stereotype. He’s addressing it.” All that stuff. It’s beautiful. It’s discomfort. It’s not inappropriate. Now, if I get mad at the phone, and I start throwing it? I got so many jokes going on in my mind right now. Somebody tried to give me a joke, and I actually got a little frustrated. He was like, “Yeah, it might run fast, but it don’t work.” I was like.

 

Kathi – Not okay. Not funny. Not okay.

 

Jason – “As funny as you thought that was.” And from the person it came from, yeah, that one came from somewhere. Now it’s awkward. That shows you how funny it was at first, and now, where it took it. It’s like, “Ahh.” Even with race conversations on stage, I talk about the argument people make, “What color was Jesus?” Then I say, “It doesn’t matter what color he was, as long as his blood was red, I’m good. But for the sake of argument, let’s talk about it. The Bible said that Jesus preached for more than six hours.” It’s like, “He wasn’t a white man. I know that much.” Don’t cover your laugh.

 

Kathi – I was covering my head as I was busting. When you said “six hours” I knew exactly. Oh my gosh, Jason. I’m going to get letters. You know that, right?

 

Jason – “And he was late for Lazarus’s funeral? C’mon.” Look so then, I start taking stereotypes of every nationality and putting them there. Let’s talk about how ridiculous trying to decide what we’re going to make Jesus. Then, I bring some Asian stereotypes.

 

Kathi – Okay. How does that go?

 

Jason – Typically, black and white audience members? As long as I’m talking black and white, everybody’s laughing. Then I say, “Jesus said he was the bread of life, not the rice of life.”? People are like, “GASP”. But my Asian friends, or Asian audience members are dying laughing.

 

Kathi – Okay, so this goes to the point. I went to go see, “Crazy Rich Asians” with five people who were Asian, and me, and I was the only one in the audience who looked like me, and I’m like, “Are we seriously laughing at that joke? I’ll just sit here.” Everybody who was Asian in the audience was dying. Here’s my question, Jason. If you were white, you wouldn’t be doing those jokes. Am I correct?

 

Jason – I don’t know. I can’t tell you what White Jason would do. Man. He probably would have a bigger house. Nah, I’m just playin’. Man. I wouldn’t have had the police called. Man, we’d make some stuff happen.

 

Kathi – I’m going to get letters.

 

Jason – Here’s one rule of comedy. When the person who is looked at as superior, is brought down, it’s instant humor. Now, for all my people from my community, I’m not calling anybody, any specific race superior. I’m not doing that, but typically, the influential person in a room, or dominating ideology? When that’s poked fun of, or the underdog rises to the top, that presents great comedy. So, yes, but notice, black people feel uncomfortable with the Asian references. Here’s why. It’s the same reason why we laugh at the black iPhone joke, or don’t, because it’s uncomfortable. Black people who don’t understand Asian culture, “You’re making fun of them like other people make fun of us. We don’t like that.” But to help with that joke? I do that first. I create the tension, purposefully, by not even saying that one of my wife’s best friends is part Asian, and her Asian mother loves me telling these jokes. I don’t do that at first. I tell it the way that I do it to help expose that we have this attitude that might not be right about our own self or, who are we to say what Asian people like or don’t like? It underscores how much we don’t sit down and talk to each other. How self-consumed we are with our own races. Races. Not racist. Our own races.

 

Kathi – Wait. That’s a really hard word to say without getting into trouble.

 

Jason – Our people group. That even sounds weird, ‘cause we’re Americans. Nevertheless. That underscores that. The tension of that joke really sets up the lifegiving principles that I’m giving to that. So, I’m not telling race jokes just to tell race jokes. When somebody tells race jokes just to tell race jokes, you know it.

 

Kathi – That’s when they say it doesn’t work. Let’s just be clear, that is a racist joke. That’s not okay.

 

Jason – Absolutely, but for some people, if you agree with the racism, “Aw, that’s a great one.” You’re telling it and don’t even realize how racist it is.

 

Kathi – Yes.

 

Jason – Ultimately, it’s your audience understanding what your heart is. I can do the black iPhone joke. I can do the Asian joke, and people don’t get offended, because one – I would never do that joke five minutes in. Never. That’s suicide.

 

Kathi – You have not traveled together enough to be able to do that joke.

 

Jason – Right. Absolutely. Now, I would probably do it, maybe, 40 minutes in? I’ll do it 30 minutes in. 25 minutes in, based off how the first 20 minutes went. I can tell, maybe 7 minutes in, “Okay, they might not. Let’s scratch this one off the list. We’re not going there.”

 

Kathi – So, do you determine how far you go into the race talk? Are you gauging the audience as you go?

 

Jason – So, this is when I leave the comedian realm and go into the shepherd/pastoral/discernment realm. Sometimes the discernment will say, “You have to sacrifice being funny and go there in the midst of them being uncomfortable. You’re going to ruin the comedy night.” Now, I’ll need to fix that. When somebody hires me for a comedy night, I gotta deliver that, but there are some moments where those feathers might need to be ruffled because of something else God is doing. I was on tour and felt that sense. My tour team was upset that I spent so much time on race. They’re like, “Man, we wish you hadn’t spent so much time on race.” First of all, the question is, why do you have so much of a problem with me talking about race? ‘Cause it makes you uncomfortable? Let’s not even go there.

 

Kathi – Yes, by the way. Yes. It does make us uncomfortable.

 

Jason – Even in this conversation right now, somebody is saying, “Why we gotta go here?” but here’s what you got to understand. What the church told the tour team after was, “That was the most unbelievable thing, because our pastor this morning brought in a black pastor, from the community, where we don’t normally associate with that church, and they had some tough conversations. It was tough and awkward, but you came here tonight and we didn’t even notice?!”

 

Kathi – But the Holy Spirit did.

 

Jason – Absolutely. So, I talked about it a little more than I normally would. Laughed a lot about it. Laughed so much, talked about it for so long, it made some people uncomfortable, but what we did not know was God was doing some cement breaking. Some ground breaking in the heart of that church. Even this year, at the CCA conference, the Christian Comedy Association Conference. I invited a certain diversity on the main stage for our big showcase. Some people were uncomfortable with some of the jokes that were made about race. I was like, “Are you kidding? The fact that you had so many African Americans on this stage, in this town, where it’s probably 1 every other year, and this town is hearing things about race? This is a major win. So get over your discomfort, your selfishness. This conversation has to be all about your comfort and be about what God may be doing on a great level, as opposed to what he’s doing in your own heart, about you being uncomfortable.”

 

Kathi – I’m not going to say another word. This is so good. Jason, first of all, thank you for trusting me with this. I said I wasn’t going to say another word, then I’m going to say this. Thank you for trusting me with this conversation. All of these words mean nothing if we are not doing the work of Jesus Christ. If we’re not doing the reconciliation or hard conversations, none of this matters. We’ve all heard the bible verses. We’ve all heard, but it’s that discomfort we’ve been talking about. I know, it’s got to be exhausting. I am so grateful that you work so hard at the comedy so that these conversations can happen.

 

Jason – Alright, so we’re breaking the rules. You’re not supposed to invite me on a podcast, I’m thinking, that’s primarily females, and you’re making me cry. Can I talk a little bit more?

 

Kathi – Go for it. These are super-sized.

 

Jason – Man, you said it. Kathi, I’m exhausted. I cannot tell you. When the George Floyd murder happened, I spent from 8:30 in the morning, until probably 7:30 at night with conversations with pastors all across the country. White pastors, asking “Hey man. Help me work through this. What do I do?” Man, that’s an entire workday and a half. I did take an hour to go to the store, but most of them were non-stop. The work. Here’s what I told my wife, and I’ve told other people: Dr. Martin Luther King had a special dose of strength. I’ve had to go play golf a lot. I’ve had to go kayaking. I’ve had to do away with the cell phone, just because my soul has gotten weary. Tired. Not from “I’m tired of this race stuff!” I mean, I am tired of it, but having conversations. It’s worn on me. I gotta take a time out. Here’s the best way I can put it. Here’s what I’ve been telling everybody. I can tell the health of your marriage, by the way that you handle race conversations. In other words, because race and racism and these issues are such deep into the heart and fabric of us as Americans, we argue them the same way we argue in conflict in marriage and relationships. So, for the person who is always trying to prove their perspective on race, and never listens? They probably don’t allow their spouse to get in a word, and they’re always trying to prove why they’re right and why their spouse is wrong. That’s not a healthy relationship. There are times, in my marriage, where, which is crazy, that the husband may be right. I may be right sometimes, but if I’m just trying to argue with Terri and her amazing self about how right I am or about how wrong she is? I may prove that I’m right, but it’s going to be a cold night.

 

Kathi – Yes it is.

 

Jason – Because my only objective was to prove that I was right and she was wrong, and it wasn’t to enhance the heart of our marriage. So, when we’re taking race conversations, it’s gotta be, number one – We’re going after the heart of what God wants in our relationship. Jesus prayed this for us, the church that exists now, that they be one. But most of our energy, we argue from the place of being different, to try to get to unity. We gotta start arguing from the place of unity, to talk about our differences. We gotta do it with listening. When you’re actively listening to someone, you’re not always trying to prove that you’re right. That they’re wrong. You’re listening with the desire to understand their perspective, truly. When you listen to all this crap that’s going on on social media, nobody’s listening to each other. When you listen to some of the perspectives of what’s going on in the news, and some of the people that I’ve made videos about and stuff, it’s just not coming from a heart of unity.

 

Kathi – You know, you’re so right. Any type of peace is only going to come from that connection and bridge building. There are not enough of us who love Christ, who are doing that work.

 

Jason – Yes, and that’s what I love about it. I love when Kathi Lipp talks politics. It’s so refreshing. It really is. It’s like, “Thank you. Thank you.” All of us are…never mind.

 

Kathi – Let’s just say this: I’ve had to unfriend a lot of people on the edges. There is no seeking reconciliation in peace.

 

Jason – And we’re supposed to be people of reconciliation. Ambassadors. You cannot do that when you have drawn a definitive line in the sand. Going back to this race thing, ‘cause people can get distracted by politics, if Jesus was walking the face of this earth right now, and an All Lives Matter person and a Black Lives Matter person came to him in the crowd, in the mall, and said “Jesus! Can settle this difference? Is it All Lives Matter? Or is it Black Lives Matter?” Jesus is going to speak to the heart of the issue of that person.

 

Kathi – Right. He’s not answering the question.

 

Jason – Jesus wouldn’t make a point about it being All Lives or Black Lives. He wouldn’t do that. You asked a question and your brother’s involved with it. I’m going to ask a question that cuts to the heart of your individual self.

 

Kathi – “What’s my issue?”

 

Jason – Jesus is walking the face of this earth right now, through us. If we’re going to make the change, we gotta listen to the heart of the individual who’s making their political or race point. Listen to them, and speak to the heart of their issue. It might not be anything about the race thing. It may be that they’re bitter about some other stuff. We don’t have enough people who listen at that level.

 

Kathi – I’m kind of done with you, because this is way too convicting. It’s so much more satisfying to argue about those surface matters. Can I just tell you? Then, when you throw down that one line? So satisfying. But, you’re right. I know.

 

Jason – Here’s the thing. I don’t know how to communicate this to the world or to most of the public audience, because it’s got to be so individualized, but why is there quarreling among you? My man James says it’s because there are some issues in your own heart. That’s why you argue. How do you communicate that to two people who are arguing about politics? How do I even communicate that to where I am as a black man, to all the communities? You gotta problem because of something in you. Everybody wants to say, “That’s right. That person got a problem.” No! You got a problem!

 

Kathi – You said you don’t know how to talk to the general public. You don’t know how to talk to that person, so, you’ll just say it to me. Okay.

 

Jason – I did use a definitive ‘you’. I’m sorry.

 

Kathi – Remember when we were talking about clowns? That was fun. It’s so true. If it’s not feeling valued, so I want to say this is what we should value. Or, it’s not feeling heard, so I’m raising my voice, thinking that’s going to work. The issue is in me, and it’s my responsibility to be rooting out that issue. I hate that it’s more work, but it’s the work that, as Christ-followers, we don’t get to put it on somebody else. We have to show up and do that work.

 

Jason – You don’t want to do that, though. I don’t want to do it sometimes.

 

Kathi – We don’t want to do it. That just means we have to do it together, because it’s going to be more fun if I’m doing it with my friend Jason.

 

Jason – Absolutely. We gonna laugh a lot. Tear up some. In the midst of it, do what we supposed to be who we are, while we’re laughing.

 

Kathi – This is not what I was expecting today, but this is exactly what I needed. Jason, I love you, man.

 

Jason – I love you, too, Kathi Lipp.

 

Kathi – Guys, this is Jason Earls. Go follow him everywhere. Of course, we’re going to put all of his links in everything. Know that your life will be better if you get more Jason in it. Guys, thank you for being here. You’ve been listening to the Writing at the Red House podcast. My guest has been Jason Earls. Honor his words today by spending a little time figuring out what it is that God is trying to say is the issue that is bringing up all your other issues. I know I’m going to do that today. Thanks again, Jason.

 

Jason – Thank you.

 

Kathi – Thank you guys for hanging out with us today. This is the largest episode of a podcast we’ve ever had. I do not regret one minute of it. Thanks, you guys.

 

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*see show notes in podcast post above for any mentioned items

 

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