Meet Your Hosts

Kathi (00:13.502)

Well, hey friends, welcome to the Writing at the Red House podcast, where we gather at the table to break bread and tell tales with some of our favorite writers and creators who share their wisdom to help us all share our stories. And today I have a wonderful episode with author Sherri Wilson-Johnson. Sherri is not only a literary agent, but she is a fabulous, fabulous fiction author who publishes through KDP, she self-publishes all of her books. And so we’re gonna give you the inside scoop on how to be your own publisher. So please listen to this amazing episode with Sherry.

 

Kathleen Lipp (00:03.734)

Well, Sherry, welcome to the program. I’m so glad you’re here. It feels weird to say that because how long have we worked together?

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (00:06.508)

Thank you so much. Thank you.

 

Haha, since 2014.

 

Kathleen Lipp (00:13.798)

You are so much better at keeping up on the dates. So it’s been nine years. Okay.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (00:17.452)

Yeah, and you know how I know, because a lot of my Kathy passwords have 2014 in them. It’s the year that I started, and that’s how I know. 

 

Kathleen Lipp (00:25.89)

That’s hilarious. What are we gonna do for our 10th anniversary? We’ll have to think on that. Oh, we can party like it’s 1999 and 2024. Well, okay, so I love that we’re talking about the DIY author with you because you have supported me as a traditional publisher for a gazillion years. You work for a traditional agent.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (00:30.594)

Oh, you need to fly me out to the Red House so we can party. Exactly, exactly.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (00:54.789)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathleen Lipp (00:55.926)

And you’re a self-published author. It’s like, it’s the craziest thing. It’s such a great, and you’ve seen every side of the publishing industry. Now, let’s just start off with talking about why would you wanna be a DIY author? Why would you wanna self-publish?

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (00:57.908)

I’m gonna go.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (01:04.76)

Yeah, pretty much.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (01:11.9)

Well, for me, my first books that were published were done traditionally by a very small house that eventually kind of went belly up and so got my rights back and was like, well, what do I do with these books? And it turned out it was like book one in a historical series and book one in a contemporary series were published. I had the other books in the series written so I got an agent.

 

Kathleen Lipp (01:27.147)

Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (01:36.398)

Mm-hmm.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (01:38.728)

And he said, okay, let’s shop these to the houses. Well, nobody wanted them, book one, because they’d been published. Nobody wanted the others because they were sequels. So here I had, you know, five books at least, yeah, five books that I couldn’t do anything with. And…

 

Kathleen Lipp (01:47.355)

Ah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (01:50.904)

Mmm.

 

Kathleen Lipp (01:56.755)

Right.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (01:57.98)

Right about that time is when indie publishing started coming about, that it wasn’t considered taboo or whatever. And so I just networked with anybody and everybody that I could to find out what to do and how to go about it, and just put those stories out myself. And then fast forward a little bit of time, I decided to write some more stories, tried to get with a publisher.

 

Kathleen Lipp (02:01.46)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathleen Lipp (02:04.701)

Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (02:22.007)

Yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (02:23.86)

had an agent, tried to do all that, but this particular publisher has a very, very strict formula that after six rejections, I realized I can’t do the formula. Like, I can’t do it. I get these letters back saying, your writing is great, however. And I’m like, ugh. So I ended up just saying, fine, I’m going to publish myself. And so I think,

 

Kathleen Lipp (02:30.985)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathleen Lipp (02:35.998)

Yeah. Right.

 

Kathleen Lipp (02:41.428)

Yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (02:51.392)

For me, I still do aspire to have some traditional contracts, but there is so much fun in writing what you want to write, the way you want to write it, without having to have a secret twin with amnesia and a widower who has 12 babies who are buried in a cave, or whatever, you know what I mean? It’s like, what? Like, you know, and I have to have a dog on the cover. So it’s like, ah, you know.

 

Kathleen Lipp (03:05.777)

Hehehehe

 

Kathleen Lipp (03:14.482)

Yeah, yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (03:16.024)

So there’s something that’s fun about that. And then for me, because I am just kind of a DIY person, just having that control is a lot of fun, you know?

 

Kathleen Lipp (03:24.062)

Yeah. And that’s why I think, you know, as long as you can sell them, that’s an important thing. You have to be able to sell them. But as long as you can sell them, there are a lot of advantages to self-publishing. In fact, my team and I are looking at doing some self-published projects because I wanna write things that traditional publishers don’t care about. And can we also talk about the money?

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (03:31.329)

Mm-hmm.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (03:34.835)

Yes.

 

Kathleen Lipp (03:54.406)

The money is better for a self-published author. I mean, not the upfront money. You have to invest to do a self-publish, but you get more per book. When people find out that, you know, I write a book and I make less than $2 every time that book sells, they’re like, do you not have a good agent? I’m like, I have a great agent. I have an amazing agent. But that’s the reality of traditional publishing, right? Okay.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (03:59.678)

Yes.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (04:03.444)

Right.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (04:16.698)

Yes

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (04:20.484)

Yes, yes, exactly, yeah. And so like when you publish, say on Amazon, your e-books, you get 70% of the royalty. You’re not splitting that with an agent. You’re not, you know, you are the publisher basically. Yeah, and then the paperbacks, I think it might be 60% or something like that, you know. And yeah, you don’t have to split it with anybody, so.

 

Kathleen Lipp (04:34.23)

You’re the publisher. Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (04:39.435)

Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (04:45.314)

Huzzah. Yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (04:45.432)

That part is just great, exactly. And you know, another beautiful thing about the self-publishing is that if you happen to later on find a typo or you accidentally put somebody’s hair color the wrong color later in the book, you just go in there to your file and just boop, and then upload the new version. Exactly.

 

Kathleen Lipp (04:58.21)

Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (05:03.102)

You get to tweak it. Or, or like in the case of the Me Project, when I got that first book in my hand and they had spelled my name wrong, you know, that’s an easy fix when you’re self-publishing. Okay, so here’s my question. Oh, I’m just looking at something right now. Okay, this isn’t a side, edit this out guys. I wanna ask what tools or programs do you use to…

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (05:15.97)

Oh

 

Kathleen Lipp (05:33.15)

I sent you social media. I was copying No, yeah, that was for Tanya. So I apologize. Okay, so let’s get into the nitty gritty of this, my friend. So if you’re going to be a DIY author, which I recommend everybody can be, whether you are doing like a chapter, you can, you don’t have to have a size. Maybe you just have a handbook.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (05:33.152)

Hmm. I know. I was like, what is she talking about?

 

Okay.

 

Kathleen Lipp (05:58.622)

or maybe you have a white sheet. You know, there are a million different things that you can self publish. And so, but if we’re gonna kind of keep this in the self publishing so you can be sold on Amazon kind of realm, what tools or programs do you use in order to do it? And you’re doing it yourself, right? I mean.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (06:12.544)

Mm-hmm.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (06:21.969)

Right, yes.

 

Kathleen Lipp (06:23.058)

Okay, so is there any part of this that you’re farming out or you you’re doing it all and uploading it to KDP? What?

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (06:30.06)

I do most of it myself because I’m a control freak. Like, literally I am, you know. Um.

 

Kathleen Lipp (06:33.01)

Yeah, okay. Okay, and guys, when we’re talking about KDP, we’re talking about Kindle Direct Publishing. So this is, you know, that’s, but your books are sold both as an E-format and as a hard copy you can get in the mail, correct? Okay.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (06:40.768)

Yes.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (06:49.236)

Paperback. Yes, yes, and I’m actually starting to think about maybe doing large print because those sell really well. And then now Amazon’s offering hardcover. So you can go, yeah, and so I’m thinking about that. There is a section of the readers who do like that. So thinking about that.

 

Kathleen Lipp (06:57.479)

Okay. Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (07:02.684)

Oh wow.

 

Kathleen Lipp (07:08.978)

Yeah, yeah. Hey, I I’m thinking large print is a beautiful thing these days. So Yeah, so what tools or programs are you using?

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (07:14.602)

It totally is.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (07:19.06)

Well, pretty much for the interior of the book, I always start just with my Word document, as I’m writing and everything. And then I’m on a PC, so I use a program called Atticus, that is basically, Vellum is what people use if they’re on a Mac. Atticus is basically Vellum that is for PC.

 

Kathleen Lipp (07:40.991)

Right, okay.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (07:47.552)

and you just upload your Word document and you use certain section breaks in there that lets it know when you have a new chapter. Upload that and boop, there it is. And you go in and you pick what font you want, what size you want the font, and if you need little fancy little scrawly things, you know, before the chapters or anything like that, you can design them the way you want them. And what’s really neat about that is if you’re doing a series and you want them all to look exactly the same, you just copy that one.

 

Kathleen Lipp (07:54.892)

Mmm.

 

Wow.

 

Kathleen Lipp (08:13.07)

Mm-hmm. Nice.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (08:17.204)

you know, put your new content in and all that. And then as far as doing the ebook, it’s super easy for Amazon because you can just upload your Word document. You don’t have to do anything fancy. But they also will accept an EPUB file. Used to accept a Moby, but I think they’re not doing Moby files anymore. But for doing that, I use a free program called Calibrate. And…

 

Kathleen Lipp (08:30.251)

Wow.

 

Kathleen Lipp (08:45.998)

Oh.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (08:46.564)

C-A-L-I-B-R-E and it formats your ebook for you and does it yes and does it like in minutes like just it’s done so yes so those are those are free Atticus I think I paid a hundred dollars and it was a lifetime I don’t have to pay for it anymore

 

Kathleen Lipp (08:52.502)

That’s amazing.

 

Kathleen Lipp (08:57.566)

It’s so different than it was 10 years ago, isn’t it? It’s crazy different. Okay, keep going.

 

Kathleen Lipp (09:09.032)

Okay.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (09:10.424)

And I’ve also been able to use that if I’m doing client books too. It doesn’t have to just be your own books. So yeah, so I do that. And then we’ve also, I’ve done some graphic like devotional type things for people. We’ve used Canva to do that and then you download it as a PDF and upload that. So for the paperback version on Amazon and IngramSpark, which is the other,

 

Kathleen Lipp (09:13.846)

Nice. Oh, that’s great.

 

Kathleen Lipp (09:24.462)

Mm-hmm.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (09:40.436)

paperback publisher person or whatever you call them. They do PDF for the print version. And then the ebook file is the epub or Moby. And so I’d use Calibri for that. But they’re super easy to learn. And what’s really neat is you get on YouTube and there are so many tutorials on how to do them, you know, that you can. You can do them because if I learned how to do it, anybody can learn how to do it.

 

Kathleen Lipp (09:42.664)

Right.

 

Kathleen Lipp (09:47.746)

Okay.

 

Kathleen Lipp (10:01.685)

Ah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (10:09.062)

So you’re doing a lot of this almost free. That’s amazing. Okay. So, and how are you designing your covers? Cause you design your own covers and I’ve seen, yeah. And you have series where your covers look like they all go together. So what are you using for your covers?

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (10:13.008)

Yes.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (10:22.54)

I do design my own covers.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (10:27.547)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yes. Well, it might be a little unconventional, but I use PicMonkey because I love PicMonkey and it gives me the ability, I can do things in it that I can’t do in Canva. There’s certain things like, because I write romantic suspense, I like the pictures to sometimes have a, you know, that blend two things together or fade something out and you know, whatever.

 

Kathleen Lipp (10:39.1)

Okay.

 

Kathleen Lipp (10:45.751)

Oh, interesting.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (10:59.928)

And I just found that I couldn’t quite do it on Canva. So I do it on PicMonkey. A lot of people do use Photoshop. They probably even use InDesign for like maybe even the interior formatting. You know, there’s so many tools out there. Photoshop, I just never have taken the time to learn. And I’m sure if I did, I would, but it’s just like, ugh.

 

Kathleen Lipp (11:03.423)

Right.

 

Kathleen Lipp (11:12.34)

Okay.

 

Kathleen Lipp (11:16.32)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathleen Lipp (11:22.272)

Yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (11:27.693)

I like it because now in PicMonkey, I have my template for the particular series, the fonts that I’ve used and all that, so I can just make a copy of that, change everything, work it in there. So the…

 

Kathleen Lipp (11:39.955)

Right.

 

Kathleen Lipp (11:43.705)

Okay, but are people making covers on Canva?

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (11:49.876)

Probably so. Amazon provides a template that you can download. You go in there and you put your page count, the size of the book, if it’s going to be white paper or cream paper, because apparently cream paper is thicker than white paper. Who knew? Yeah, and so you put in all your dimensions and everything and then it will give you a template that you can download. And so then you just take that, upload it to Canva.

 

Kathleen Lipp (11:51.71)

Okay.

 

Kathleen Lipp (11:56.071)

Okay.

 

Kathleen Lipp (12:06.056)

Oh, who knew?

 

Kathleen Lipp (12:14.402)

That’s.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (12:17.652)

You know, and so if somebody’s doing like something simple, like a devotional that maybe just has a pretty flower on it and then whatever font they want, they could very easily go in and do that in Canva with no problems. Yeah, yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (12:23.602)

Right. Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (12:30.85)

That is amazing. Okay. So if the average person who, let’s say the average person like me, okay, so I’m an average person, I have no design abilities. I have no editorial abilities. If you had a budget of like $500, where would you spend that $500?

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (12:42.464)

Hehehe

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (12:50.703)

Mm-hmm.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (12:59.596)

I would definitely spend it on a good cover. And you can go to Fiverr, you can go to 99 Designs, you can go to Reezy, and they’ve got different ones. You can find a cover designer. Some of them say, we’ll do it for $25. I’m not real sure if I would do, you know, $25 cover. But what’s really neat, especially on Fiverr and 99 Designs, is you can see their rating, you can see how many they’ve done.

 

Kathleen Lipp (13:18.134)

Yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (13:28.508)

you can read reviews, you know, and so then you can choose from there and very, very easily you hit the button to request a quote and you can have your details of what you’re wanting to ask for, already typed out, copy, paste, copy, paste, and just hit it and get as many quotes as you want, you know, from people. But definitely I would have a good cover because the cover is what that reader is going to see first and foremost. And for,

 

Kathleen Lipp (13:28.574)

Yeah. Right.

 

Kathleen Lipp (13:42.754)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathleen Lipp (13:47.235)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathleen Lipp (13:53.59)

You’re right.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (13:58.196)

The DIY person who maybe doesn’t have that design mind, and even for me, I never thought that I did have the design mind, but I’m great at copying things. So go on Amazon, look in your genre, see what is already out there to get an idea of what might be the good, so in other words, if you are having a rom-com,

 

Kathleen Lipp (14:08.752)

Mm-hmm.

 

Okay.

 

Kathleen Lipp (14:16.087)

Mm-hmm.

 

Okay.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (14:26.088)

you don’t want the cover to look like a horror flick. You know what I mean? You’re going to want it to match, you know? So, or you don’t want it to have a fantasy effect or anything like that, you know? If it’s a non-fiction book on encouragement, you don’t want it to look like it’s an End Times book. You know what I mean? You want it to fit, you know? And so if you don’t know how to do that, you can go and look at books in the genre.

 

Kathleen Lipp (14:26.36)

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah, right. Yes.

 

Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (14:43.778)

Right, right, absolutely.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (14:52.016)

And then when you reach out to a cover designer, you can say, here are some books that I like the way this cover looks, you know, and then go from there. So, but yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (14:57.39)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (15:03.282)

So you would put what $150 towards the cover design on Fiverr? Do you feel like? Yeah. OK. Yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (15:09.412)

Yeah, probably so. Some of them maybe 200, if they’re like the top people. But I would say it’s very worth it because then they’re gonna, and you really don’t want, some people will go ahead and get their cover made before they’ve done their interior. You have to do your interior first because your cover designer needs to know your page count. And you don’t know your page count until you are finished and you have it formatted. So.

 

Kathleen Lipp (15:27.524)

Oh.

 

Kathleen Lipp (15:33.399)

Ah, yes. If you don’t have a friend to meet. Right.

 

And there are YouTube videos about how to do all of that. Okay, you know what? I’m gonna ask you when we’re done here, if you could point us to a couple of tutorials that you’ve used, because I think that would be really, really helpful to people. Okay, so then editing. Now, here’s the thing. People can, you can sell a self-published book without it being edited.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (15:39.328)

You know.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (15:43.619)

Yes, yes.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (15:52.188)

Okay. Yeah, yeah, okay.

 

Kathleen Lipp (16:08.034)

But the problem is people are gonna review that book. And if they get a lot of dings for it not being well edited, they’re gonna take stars off, let’s be clear. So it’s unforgiving. Yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (16:10.83)

Oh yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (16:19.704)

Oh yes, and they are unforgiving because let me tell you, in one of my books, it was set around a historical Queen Anne home that a guy was renovating. He had gotten it, he had bought it, and it had belonged to his great-great-grandfather. And I went over that book 25 times, had beta readers, had all the things, and I let my computer read to me.

 

Kathleen Lipp (16:42.99)

Mm-hmm, yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (16:47.988)

I let word read to me so that I can catch if it says it instead of if or is or, you know, little words. Like one time I had a, the man was wearing a pair of black plants instead of pants. And I wouldn’t have caught it because your eye sees what it thinks it’s supposed to say. But when you let it read, exactly. Well, turned out my Queen Anne home, I had left the E off of Anne.

 

Kathleen Lipp (16:48.482)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kathleen Lipp (16:53.338)

Okay, yeah. Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (17:00.439)

Oh yes, yes.

 

Right. And that word is not misspelled. Yeah.

 

Eee. Oh, I knew that was what’s gonna happen darn it Yeah

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (17:17.336)

I dictated it, I was dictating it, and because before my hand quit working on me, I hand wrote all my books and then dictated them into my phone, but now I have to type, so it’s really sad. But anyway, but anyway, so one star review, scathing one star review. This might kinda use to good. I mean, just went on and on and I’m like, oh my gosh.

 

Kathleen Lipp (17:26.069)

Oh yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (17:35.829)

Uh…

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (17:40.3)

Of course, I was thankful because then I was able to catch it and go in and correct it, and hopefully there’s not like a bunch of copies out there. But it was like, they’re so unforgiving. But at the same time, you’re going to have mistakes. We’re human. And I mean, even my traditionally published books, some of them came back with errors that the editors made. I’m like, what? Yeah, so.

 

Kathleen Lipp (17:43.2)

Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (17:46.93)

Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (17:50.258)

guess.

 

Kathleen Lipp (17:54.739)

Absolutely.

 

Kathleen Lipp (17:59.15)

Exactly. Yes. Oh my goodness. So, okay. If I have to, this is kind of my last question because I want people to have enough information to go publish dangerously. Go play with it, go figure it out. So if I want to self publish my book.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (18:19.921)

Yes.

 

Kathleen Lipp (18:26.266)

And I need to invest my energy in learning a skill, like learning how to do something that’s going to help me. What are some things that you would recommend? Like that I could go and learn and get better at doing this.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (18:45.9)

I would say the writing part of it, because if the book’s not good, it doesn’t matter how nice your cover is, it doesn’t matter how nicely it’s formatted or whatever, you know, that part of it is the beginning of it all. I mean, you know, without the story, without whatever the topic is, you know, if it’s not written well, there’s a dozen other books out there or more that are written well, that, you know.

 

Kathleen Lipp (18:50.175)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

 

Kathleen Lipp (18:56.108)

Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (19:03.337)

Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (19:13.018)

Right. Yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (19:13.748)

So definitely investing in knowing how to write that type of book, because somebody that’s used to writing non-fiction who says, oh, I have a fiction. Well, you have to know how to write fiction. I mean, you have to, you know, and vice versa, you have to know. So definitely investing your energy in that writing part. But then also, while you’re doing that, I think one of the biggest things is thinking of

 

How are you going to sell it? Like investing in growing your newsletter subscribers. You know, finding out what can I spend in marketing if I’m going to market on Facebook ads or if I’m just gonna blast my social media, whatever. Because you can have a book all day long and if you don’t know what to do with it, then it’s just your book. And I mean, sometimes books are just for you. You had to write it. But if you’re going to go through the trouble,

 

Kathleen Lipp (20:07.637)

Yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (20:11.472)

of learning how to publish it, know how you’re gonna sell it. You know, kind of have that in, you know. They don’t sell themselves, that’s for sure. Ha ha ha.

 

Kathleen Lipp (20:15.69)

Yeah, it’s.

 

Right. Yeah. You know, when people tell me I don’t have a platform, so I’m just going to self publish my book It it breaks my heart because I’m like the only thing worse than not getting your book published is Having 500 sitting in your garage And so, you know either way you’re going to need a plan to sell it and that’s what I want Yeah

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (20:25.673)

Mm-hmm.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (20:34.762)

Yes.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (20:38.8)

Yeah, you have to. And that organic, you know, growing, growing your following. And like a nonfiction author is different than a fiction author because fiction author, most readers, they wanna know about you. They wanna know about your dog. They wanna know where you live. They wanna know your coffee house. Nonfiction authors, it better, your social media better be built around what you are. Like you with Clutter Free, you know? I mean, they knew that. And then now you’re homesteading stuff, you know.

 

Kathleen Lipp (20:52.106)

Right. Yeah.

 

Kathleen Lipp (21:03.047)

Yeah.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (21:06.26)

They know that and they know that’s what they’re gonna get in their book, that, you know, if they buy it. So, mm-hmm, yeah. But it is a whole thing, you know? Ha ha ha.

 

Kathleen Lipp (21:09.635)

Yeah. And you have to deliver on those promises. Yeah, absolutely. Sherry. Yeah, it is a whole thing. Sherry, this has been such a great, I mean, I’ve learned a lot just doing this. And I think we’re in the age of DIY. You know, we’re in the age of being able to do it yourself and tearing down barriers that have been set up traditionally, that sometimes don’t make a lot of sense. And so

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (21:25.532)

Mm-hmm.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (21:33.628)

Yes.

 

Kathleen Lipp (21:37.618)

I hope this really inspires some of our listeners to do the thing. Thanks so much for being here.

 

Sherri Wilson Johnson (21:40.208)

Oh, I do too. I do too. You’re welcome. Thank you.