Meet Your Hosts

Kathi (00:01.796)

Hey, friends, welcome to the Writing at the Red House podcast where we gather at the table to break bread and tell tales with some of our favorite writers and creators who share their wisdom to help us all share our story. And I am here, we are in the midst of our DIY series.

I’m here with one of my favorite DIYers. It’s Tonya Kubo. Hey, Tonya! Okay, so we are talking about when you know…we all have these resources we have to balance and it’s great when you have a big team, but you and I…I mean we have a big team at Kathi Lipp, but that was not always the case, you know.

Tonya Kubo (00:35.03)

Hey Kathi!

Kathi (00:56.42)

It’s very funny to bring interns on and for them to find out that I built our first website. Not Roger, I did. Now it was using Publisher, but this was back in the day. And you just had to figure things out. And I remember this is how long ago that was. I read books to figure out how to create my website. Right? Right? We went old school, baby, old school. And…

Tonya Kubo (01:03.402)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (01:08.266)

Yeah.

Kathi (01:25.892)

So, we’ve had this series about, you know, what do you do when you have to figure it out on your own or you have to, the only manpower you have is you. And so today I want to talk about that in regards to social media, because I think, you know, it’s very easy to think, oh, well, you just post. And I, if you’re not going to, I mean, sometimes that’s just where you have to start. I’d rather see somebody just post.

Tonya Kubo (01:31.828)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (01:52.278)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (01:55.236)

Then wait till it’s perfect and then post. But yeah, but we’re calling this the DIY social media influencer. Now I know people hate the word influencer, especially if you’re an author and especially if you’re a Christian. But really, part of the reason that you are posting on social media is for influence. Whether it’s to be an expert on your topic, to get people to buy your books, to be a part of the conversation.

Tonya Kubo (01:58.388)

Definitely.

Tonya Kubo (02:14.302)

Right?

Kathi (02:21.7)

So, do you feel like social media influencer is the proper term or should we be calling this something else?

Tonya Kubo (02:27.712)

Well, because I come from a background of professional social media management, I have a very narrow view of what an influencer is. Influencers are people with large followings who are paid to leverage their following for other brands. But what I love about the title is it does drive home the point that we all have influence. Right? Because I think we forget that. Like I’m…

Kathi (02:35.202)

Okay.

Kathi (02:41.572)

Mmm, okay. Mm-hmm.

Kathi (02:53.668)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (02:56.982)

Famous for saying something that really does hurt a lot of people’s feelings, honestly, which is if you can’t be trusted to show up consistently for a small following, how can I trust you to show up consistently for a large following? Because everybody’s waiting until they have 10,000 followers to figure their social media out, right? But how do you get 10,000 followers if you don’t take care of the 10 you have today? So, when you think about DIY…

Kathi (03:07.716)

Mm-hmm.

It’s so true.

Kathi (03:15.428)

Right. Yes.

Kathi (03:21.892)

It’s so true. Yes.

Tonya Kubo (03:25.406)

Social media influencer, I think, oh, maybe that’s the right frame to help you realize that everything you post has the ability to make somebody feel better, feel smarter, help them solve a real problem.

Kathi (03:41.932)

Yeah, okay good. I’m glad we’re on the same wavelength even if technically it’s a different vibe But it I think that this is it’s a good way to frame it because a lot of people get very frustrated that they have to be on social media But I’m also like how do I trust you to write a book? If I can’t trust you to post on social media?

Tonya Kubo (03:56.926)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (04:01.78)

Right.

Right, and my favorite is people are like, well, because I’ve had people tell me this, well, if I got a book deal, then I would make sure, you know, for the publisher, I would show up on social. I’m like, yeah, but the publisher doesn’t have any evidence of that. And I know you are a good Christian, but the publisher doesn’t have any evidence of that either.

Kathi (04:19.702)

Right.

Kathi (04:25.408)

Right. Well, and also, who are you going to sell this book to if you’re not a part of the conversation? Because people are not going into their local bookstores like they used to. We all want to be romantic, and I love to go into a tiny little bookstore as well, and I buy books that I will never end up reading just because I want this bookstore to stay in business. But most people are not going in and spending money on books they’re not going to read.

Tonya Kubo (04:30.27)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that’s very true.

Tonya Kubo (04:38.558)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (04:50.61)

Yep.

Kathi (04:55.748)

So, yeah, okay, so let’s talk about, we’ve done other podcasts on the social media landscape where you should be spending your time. You are a big believer in Facebook. You love some Facebook and I have to say Facebook is my absolute favorite platform to show up in because there’s engagement and reactions and you know, I don’t.

Tonya Kubo (05:05.726)

Mm-hmm.

I am.

I do.

Tonya Kubo (05:20.34)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (05:23.428)

It’s so funny. Whenever I talk to my niece who is 14 and we’re talking about what she wants for Christmas or what she wants to do, her favorite word is aesthetic. Aesthetic. That’s her favorite word. She’s adorable, by the way. And so I am not the most aesthetic auntie or influencer out there.

Tonya Kubo (05:37.416)

Ha ha ha.

Tonya Kubo (05:46.814)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (05:49.06)

So, I think on Facebook we can get away with a little bit less, a little bit more down and dirty, which I think is really good for somebody who’s doing this all by themselves.

Tonya Kubo (06:01.01)

Yeah, well, and you know, the reality is the beautiful thing about social media is that it’s always changing because it is a direct reflection of the people who use it. Now, the frustrating thing is that means the rules that work today will not work a year from now. So, you know, what we’re seeing is aesthetic isn’t as important in Instagram anymore either. It hasn’t been important in Instagram for a long time.

Kathi (06:15.652)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (06:21.156)

Yes.

Kathi (06:27.364)

Mmm, okay.

Okay.

Tonya Kubo (06:31.294)

Now what that means, that means different things to different people. But yes, with Facebook, I mean, I like, what I like most about Facebook is this post can be very different from my last post. And it’s not easy to tell. Whereas on Instagram, just the way that the feed appears, everything you’re like, oh, well, that’s weird compared to that, compared to that, compared to that. Where Facebook, it’s all in the moment. It’s the same thing over in threads or even in Pinterest.

Kathi (06:45.348)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (06:50.436)

Yeah.

Kathi (06:54.884)

Yeah.

Kathi (07:00.228)

Mm-hmm, okay. I love it. Okay now I want to speak to the person who is out there just on their own They don’t have a social media manager. They don’t have a designer. They don’t have some of the things that bigger brands have but in some ways they’re trying to compete with bigger brands and so I want to open up the toolkit right now because can I just say I?

Tonya Kubo (07:23.54)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (07:27.444)

Okay.

Kathi (07:30.372)

it is a lot easier to look like one of the big kids now than it used to be. And yeah, and so we’ve kind of put social media into three big buckets. There’s creation, management, and planning and measurement. So, I wanna talk about some of the biggest tools, especially for creation and management. So, Tonya, give me some of your favorite tools for creating.

Tonya Kubo (07:35.894)

That is true.

Tonya Kubo (07:46.356)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (08:00.1)

…your social media.

Tonya Kubo (08:01.556)

Okay, well, Canva because you couldn’t buy me design skills in a store if you tried. So, Canva number one, number two, Canva templates. So first of all, if you’re just starting off with your bootstrapping, Canva has a great library of templates already available. But if you’re somebody who has just a little bit more of a specific taste or a style, there is no shortage.

Kathi (08:09.956)

No, me neither.

Tonya Kubo (08:31.222)

Of professionals out there who sell template packages. And you just find one that looks good to you. They sell them on Etsy, there’s template like memberships you can join, all sorts of things. And so for me, it’s really just like, I spend time thinking, what is the information I want to share? And then I try to come up with like, what’s the best way to reflect that information? You know, is it an infographic? Is it a quote card? And then I find the templates.

Kathi (08:35.844)

Yeah, I buy them on Etsy all the time.

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (09:00.502)

That are comparable. So, for me, what what Canva already has for infographics, I don’t really like. So, I buy template packs for infographics, but I don’t buy template packs for quote cards. I just Canva templates are fine for that.

Kathi (09:15.652)

Yes, okay, yeah, and I use, I have a paid account for Canva, but you can also go with the free account. You’re gonna have to do a little bit more looking to find what you like or lower your standards a little bit, but both of those are perfectly acceptable, you know, from a beginning standpoint. And here’s what I mean by beginning standpoint. It may not mean that you’re a beginning author or a beginning creator, but if you’re not,

Tonya Kubo (09:22.824)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (09:28.468)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (09:35.958)

Oh, definitely.

Kathi (09:44.772)

Doing a lot right now, anything you’re doing is going to up you by a considerable amount.

Tonya Kubo (09:52.488)

Oh, definitely. And, Kathi, can we talk about the Rood Awakening really quickly? Because this is something like I think anybody who has come from a corporate background, sometimes we get led to the like we get convinced that there’s only one way to do things. And that’s the way that it’s done in corporate, forgetting that corporate had big budgets. OK, like the social media management tools and content creation tools I used when I worked for a university.

Kathi (09:56.58)

Oh, do tell.

Kathi (10:14.722)

Right.

Tonya Kubo (10:22.422)

Not just hundreds, but we’re talking tens of thousands of dollars outside of my budget now as a solopreneur. It’s not that they’re not great tools, right? But like, I can’t swing $25,000 a year for a content creation tool, but the university could, because they were spreading that over 50 departments.

Kathi (10:38.914)

Mm-hmm. No. Right.

And let’s talk about how much higher education is. I mean, they were bringing in money to be able to spend money.

Tonya Kubo (10:52.072)

Right. I mean, it’s like, but you know, they were able to scale that across several teams. But when I first left, it was like, well, I don’t know how to use any other tools. I mean, I remember learning how to use free Canva and going, huh, this does more than I thought it would. Right. Because we had a big enterprise account with Canva.

Kathi (10:57.22)

Yeah.

Kathi (11:02.644)

Right.

Kathi (11:07.074)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kathi (11:14.756)

Yeah, but for your needs as a solopreneur, as an author, as a content creator, it was probably just fine.

Tonya Kubo (11:17.15)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (11:23.466)

Canva is still just fine. It’s funny, I remember several years ago thinking like, okay, I can’t wait till I make enough money to afford Adobe Creative Suite, because that’s what we use at the university. Kathi, there’s not been a time that I’ve needed that. Like I couldn’t do what that did without using some free tool that’s on the market.

Kathi (11:35.268)

Right.

Kathi (11:43.684)

Yeah.

It’s so true. And you know what? We pay for Adobe. I don’t use it. Roger does. I do not use it. And he is not. Yeah, and he is not creating my online content. So, yeah. OK, let’s take a moment to talk a little bit about chat GPT. And you’ve mentioned that you have polarizing feelings about this, but go for it.

Tonya Kubo (11:49.526)

I’m glad Roger uses it.

Tonya Kubo (12:02.902)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (12:06.71)

Well, you know, the big thing that I say about chat GPT is garbage in garbage out. And, you know, simply put, it is only as good as the stuff you as the questions you ask it is what you put into it. And keep in mind that it is it does not think it is only capable of producing content that’s already out there. And so if there’s not a whole lot in your area of expertise in your niche,

Kathi (12:12.738)

Right.

Kathi (12:19.684)

The prompts, yeah.

Kathi (12:29.796)

Yes.

Kathi (12:34.212)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (12:35.062)

It’s not going to be able to give you a lot back. If there’s a lot of really bad writing in your niche, it’s going to give you a lot of bad writing back. So, I say all that to say, it’s not that it’s not a great tool, especially for research, for brainstorming, but don’t go into it assuming that you’re going to be able to use everything it generates without changing.

Kathi (12:38.178)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (12:44.772)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (13:03.158)

It really is just a shortcut. It’s not your actual personal assistant.

Kathi (13:08.708)

Right, it is a very rudimentary first draft, which does not have your personality, your sense of humor. I mean, it can to a certain extent, but really, it is just sometimes what I most say with chat GPT is, oh, I hadn’t thought to talk about that. Now, it’s not that I hadn’t thought of the words, I had not thought of that angle.

Tonya Kubo (13:13.586)

Yes.

Tonya Kubo (13:30.836)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (13:37.922)

Or that subject and it’s like, but I have all the knowledge on this, I could totally do that. And so it’s incredibly helpful there. And then the next thing is a spreadsheet. Now we all have a spreadsheet, but tell me how you’re using your spreadsheet, Tonya.

Tonya Kubo (13:43.846)

Right!

Tonya Kubo (13:56.534)

Well, so I’m a former journalist, right? So I just, I write down in documents, but you can also write in spreadsheets what I like about, so a lot of people, sorry, I’m all over the place. A lot of people like to create directly in the social media platform, right? They’re on their phone and they’re just typing into Instagram or they’re typing into Facebook. And I get it, convenient, it’s quick, you’re on the go. But then what happens to that content afterwards?

Kathi (14:26.276)

Yeah, it’s…

Tonya Kubo (14:26.294)

How do you remember what you wrote about three weeks ago? So, I prefer to use a document to do all of my content creation. I can kind of check like how many words, I can add emojis to that if I want. And then I copy that and I paste that into the tool. Now, if I’m on the go and I see something I want to post, that’s fine. I just make sure to copy that and email it to myself later. But having that centralized document, like I said, some people like spreadsheets, I prefer doc.

Kathi (14:29.476)

I don’t.

Kathi (14:40.004)

Yeah!

Tonya Kubo (14:55.446)

But you can search and you can see how many times have I talked about this topic and you can repurpose that later on and it makes so much better use of your time.

Kathi (14:59.556)

Yeah.

Kathi (15:06.372)

Yes, I love it. Okay, we need to take a quick break. But when we come back, I wanna talk about what tools Tonya is using for managing her social media because I think that that’s going to help all of us. And there’s a tool on here that I’ve never heard of. Well, apparently, you showed it to me and I don’t remember. So I am very excited to learn more. So we’ll be right back.

Tonya Kubo (15:30.078)

Okay.

Kathi (15:35.844)

Okay, guys, we’re back with Tonya Kubo and we’re talking all things DIY social media. And so, Tonya, you really believe you need a scheduler. So let’s talk about that. What kind of scheduler are you using? And what it, well, first of all, what is a scheduler and how are you using it?

Tonya Kubo (15:53.462)

Yeah, sometimes they call people will call them social media management tools. So a scheduler is simply something that allows you to put all your content in, write your post, your video, your picture, and then decide when it gets published, publish it later in time. You can use Meta Business Suite, which is absolutely free. I use that for a lot of my clients because it does Facebook and it does Instagram. And again,

Like I mentioned, it’s free, so why not? And it works pretty well. It doesn’t work well for reels because the editing features aren’t nearly as nice as the ones that are in Instagram. It’d be great if it had the same editing capability that Instagram did, but it doesn’t. But that works fine. And you can choose, even with Business Suite, which is free, you can even choose the best times. Like, what time are my people usually active on?

Facebook, what time are they usually active on Instagram. So, that’s all a scheduler does. Now every scheduler on the market was created to do one thing really, really well. And I always say, and they do everything else kind of meh. So, for instance, later and Plainly came on the market specifically for Instagram. When those schedulers first started, that’s all they did was Instagram. Now they do all sorts of different platforms.

Kathi (16:51.684)

Right.

Kathi (17:06.148)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:18.486)

But they still don’t do any platform nearly as well as they do Instagram. Tailwind came on the market for Pinterest, still doesn’t do any other platform as well as it does Pinterest. And I would argue some people fight me on this, but I don’t think any other scheduler does Pinterest as well as Tailwind does.

Kathi (17:22.916)

Okay.

Kathi (17:27.076)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (17:37.572)

Okay, yeah. I mean, the social media needs of each platform are so different, it only makes sense that each of those would require something new and different.

Tonya Kubo (17:44.532)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (17:50.422)

Exactly. And then there’s also kind of what works with your brain, right? Later and Plainly. I think part of the reason that they work so well with Instagram is they allow you to kind of move things around almost like puzzle pieces to see how they’ll appear. Very visual. Others aren’t nearly that visual. So the main thing I just want to before I go into the tool that I’m currently using, because I’ve used every tool under the sun, you really want to look at what your priority platform.

Kathi (17:54.244)

Yes, yes.

Kathi (18:02.756)

Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (18:19.478)

Qnd then start looking at which tools do those platform, does that platform the best? And then you want to look at your budget, see is there a free option? A lot of tools out there do not have a free option, but some do. And then just like what’s your level of patience? Does it make sense in your head? Do they have a free trial? Even seven days is enough time for you to figure it out. So the tool that I’m currently using is called MetraCool.

Kathi (18:24.386)

Got it.

Kathi (18:32.708)

Right. Okay.

Kathi (18:42.468)

Yeah. Yes.

Kathi (18:49.252)

Yes. Okay.

Tonya Kubo (18:50.326)

Before Metro Cool, I was using Smarter Queue. Smarter Queue is pricey. You’re looking at about $50 a month as a solopreneur. And some people might not consider that pricey, but I think for most solopreneurs, we’re comfortable with about 20 bucks a month for most of our tools. So when you think over $20 a month feels pricey. What sets Smarter Queue apart from all other tools out there is it actually allows you to create a looping queue.

Kathi (18:55.524)

Okay.

Kathi (18:59.49)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (19:07.62)

Yeah, right.

Kathi (19:12.356)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (19:19.83)

So, you can load a bunch of stuff. And if you don’t put anything new in, it just starts the cycle back over. So Metrocool does that too. I actually don’t use that for Metrocool, but that’s what led me to discover Metrocool. Metrocool has a free plan. That’s why I’m talking to you about it. What I like about Metrocool is it brings all, so it’s the whole metric, right? Cause I’m a measurement person.

Kathi (19:34.146)

Okay.

Kathi (19:38.466)

Mmm, okay.

Kathi (19:46.692)

Yes

Tonya Kubo (19:47.51)

All of your measurements are viewable on one single dashboard. So, I can see how my post is performing on Facebook. I can see my website analytics, my Google analytics, along with Instagram and my other channels. It is from a scheduling standpoint, it’s just as easy to use as I would say Hootsuite or Business Suite.

Kathi (19:52.356)

Okay.

Kathi (19:56.002)

Mmm.

Kathi (20:00.77)

Okay.

Got it, okay.

Kathi (20:13.764)

Oh nice.

Tonya Kubo (20:16.052)

If you’re big into reels, Metro Cool is not your thing. Just gonna tell you that right off the bat. But if you’re somebody who’s like Facebook, Instagram, you know, maybe you do some LinkedIn, but mainly you do text, some video, it’s a great tool.

Kathi (20:19.78)

Okay, good to know.

Kathi (20:29.636)

Yeah.

Kathi (20:33.508)

Okay, cool. And then you also believe you want to have a tool for repurposing your content to using it over and over again so that you’re getting as much mileage out of it as you can. So explain a little bit about that.

Tonya Kubo (20:49.686)

Yeah, so this goes with your measurements. So as you’re looking to see, you know, what post has gotten the best engagement, right? So the best likes, shares, comments, so on. Well, people like that topic once they might like it again. Your audience is always growing. Who saw it today may not see it a week from now or the people a week from now may not have seen it today.

Kathi (21:12.868)

It’s so true.

Tonya Kubo (21:17.014)

So, this is a great way that you can use ChatGPT, where you can feed it that post and say, can you give me three variations of this post? That’s a very easy way to repurpose. I find that if you start with having everything in a single document or spreadsheet, it just makes it easier because you can go, oh, I haven’t posted about that in a long time. And in some tools, Facebook’s like this, Threads is like this. Actually, all of them are like this.

Kathi (21:25.026)

Okay.

Kathi (21:37.154)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (21:45.046)

You can run the same text with a different picture next time and see does that do just as well? Better? Not as well? It’s a little A/B testing exactly. You could run that text with a video. You could turn, you know, rather than running a photo, maybe you did a selfie with it, maybe turn a portion of that post into a quote card.

Kathi (21:50.276)

Mmm, a little A/B testing, if you will.

Kathi (21:58.244)

Mm-hmm.

Kathi (22:07.012)

Yeah.

Tonya Kubo (22:08.278)

The thing that I want anybody who’s listening to walk away with, like if you hear nothing else, anything worth doing once is worth repeating on social media. You’re not the newspaper. It’s not yesterday’s news.

Kathi (22:17.156)

Yeah, it’s, yeah. I love it, you’re not the newspaper. Okay, and finally, we’re not gonna get into this because right now we just want you to do the thing. But at some point, you’re going to want to incorporate planning and measurements into your posting. What tools do you recommend in that area?

Tonya Kubo (22:43.99)

Like for planning, I would say something as simple as whatever your project management tool is. Some people like Trello. Trello is nice, keeps everything all in one spot for you. Some people use Notion. I’ve heard of people who use Airtable, Asana. Those all have free plans, by the way. I’ve not mentioned a single thing that you can’t do for free. I do worry a little bit that it’s a lot like going to Lowe’s and collecting all the paint chips and never getting around to painting your house.

Kathi (23:14.852)

Yes, it’s so true. Yeah, I wouldn’t…

Tonya Kubo (23:16.63)

So, you know what, if a notebook works for you, use a notebook.

Kathi (23:20.452)

Yeah, I here’s the thing you can get a free trial on just about everything or there’s a free program on most of these things But I wouldn’t sign up until you’re ready Because you could spend seven days getting that one post ready and never actually getting to try it

Tonya Kubo (23:37.622)

And just because it works for me doesn’t mean it’s going to work for you, Kathy.

Kathi (23:40.1)

Yeah, yeah, it’s so true, because our brains work totally differently. Okay, this is amazing. This is exactly what we needed. And Tanya, also, can you let them know about what you offer on Facebook, your Facebook group, because I think a lot, you talk about a lot of these things there and your group is free. Talk about another free thing, there we go.

Tonya Kubo (23:45.086)

Mm-hmm.

Tonya Kubo (24:01.492)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so, it’s the most meta thing out there, right? It’s a group on groups. But what we talk about is how to grow thriving online communities. So how like we take a people first approach, how to really love your audience, no matter how big they are, and build a community. Now we talk a lot about Facebook groups, we talk about groups on other platforms, but we talk a lot about building relationships on email, your blog, podcast, and so on. And it’s very easy to find us. We’ll put it in the show notes, but it’s just Tonya.

The hardest thing is spelling Tonya right?

Kathi (24:35.876)

Oh, okay.

T-O-N-Y-A. I was just thinking about this the other day. I have a friend named Tanya and I always called her Ton. But when I was writing to her, I’m like, I’m not spelling your name like Ton We are we are very much into wait acceptance, but Ton is not good for anybody So I renamed her T-A-W-N and she uses that to this day Because yeah, that made me feel good. I named somebody that I didn’t have to birth, which is a beautiful thing.

Tonya Kubo (24:56.182)

Not working.

Tonya Kubo (25:01.78)

Aww, how sweet.

Kathi (25:08.836)

Okay, these are excellent places to start. Tonya, thank you so much for each and every one of these. I want people to be able to go and use this. And guys, we’ll be publishing this list in our newsletter. So, of all the places that you can go and click on, try things out, look at them, see what works for you. So, just go in our show notes, you can subscribe to the newsletter and you’ll be good to know.

Tonya Kubo (25:13.974)

Thank you for having me.

Kathi (25:37.764)

You’ll be good to go. Tonya, thanks again. And friends, thank you for hanging out with us. Now, sorry. You’ve been listening to the Writing at the Red House podcast. I’m Kathi Lipp. Now, go tell your only you story of God’s extravagant love in your life.

Tonya Kubo (25:40.662)

Thanks for having me.

Kathi (26:03.3)

Awesome.